tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post5598542491654473844..comments2024-03-27T18:00:02.032-04:00Comments on Sardonicky: The Temp Emp Has No ClothesKaren Garciahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15612731479365562803noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-35996731147460227392013-07-14T15:51:15.523-04:002013-07-14T15:51:15.523-04:00In a recent interview with Glenn Greenwald in Salo...In a recent interview with Glenn Greenwald in Salon the following statement was made which validates a statement I recently made in Sardonicky as to why <br />Snowden had to flee the country.<br /><br /><br />"And Daniel Ellsberg made this point himself in an op-ed he wrote in the <br />Washington Post a week ago or so, in which he said, “the fact that Snowden <br />fled the U.S. makes all the sense in the world. He should have because the <br />U.S. has changed radically in the four decades since I was on trial. I was allowed to be on bail and participate in public debates about my case. Snowden would be put into a cage, unquestionably, and never released and be silenced. And the justice system would treat him unfairly, which was never the case for Daniel Ellsberg, even in the Nixon years,” said Daniel Ellsberg. I think clearly there’s a case for persecution. He has a right to seek it, but the U.S. is blocking him from seeking that right."<br /><br /><br />Pearlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-19378048074819723772013-07-14T10:37:55.042-04:002013-07-14T10:37:55.042-04:00@annenigma
Je ne t'ai jamais eu à l'espri...@annenigma<br /><br />Je ne t'ai jamais eu à l'esprit quand repoussant contre les narcissiques attaquant Denis. Le personnel de temps en temps peut être bienvenu, et nous avons tous partagé une histoire personnelle à l'occasion. Mais le personnel comme un élément central à l'observation et à peu près tout le temps, ou commentaires encerclant retour souvent aux loisirs dangereuses, sont ce que j'ai prononcé contre.<br /><br />Hasta prontoJay–Ottawahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10360356126450612113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-66944957532183517972013-07-13T22:08:27.550-04:002013-07-13T22:08:27.550-04:00Karen could always disable comments completely and...Karen could always disable comments completely and we wouldn't have these kerfuffles that disturb some people so much. <br /><br />My apologies for boring others with my opinions, personal info, and using profanities at times. I'm just not the mainstream prim and proper Puritan type American that is more acceptable in our culture and in the blog comments sections. <br /><br />Frankly, I am very dismayed about the state of this country and our people, especially Democrats who have become so strident and intolerant of dissenting voices. Oops! TMI. And too personal. I'll never learn! <br /><br />Adios, amigos. Cheers to all.annenigmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-34510793258024985402013-07-13T21:15:40.323-04:002013-07-13T21:15:40.323-04:00I'll just repeat my assertion from a previous ...I'll just repeat my assertion from a previous thread, that the "wardens" of this nation (or the plutocracy, if you don't care for the prison metaphor) like nothing better than for the "inmates", that is, most of the people, to focus their energies on fighting with each other.Fred Drumlevitchhttp://www.freddrumlevitch.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-3002904992333505282013-07-13T20:55:54.924-04:002013-07-13T20:55:54.924-04:00Pompous today are we?Pompous today are we?James F Traynornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-71270189584112826542013-07-13T20:18:45.824-04:002013-07-13T20:18:45.824-04:00As a legendary math professor once said, “There ar...As a legendary math professor once said, “There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can’t.”<br /><br />Similarly, there are two kinds of commenters here at Sardonicky: those who talk about issues mainly, those who talk about themselves mainly, and another motley pack that responds to every issue with spam, propaganda or curses and barnyard language.<br /><br />It’s cold and impersonal (and probably un-American) to say this, but I personally (self-revelation alert) keep returning to Sardonicky for political and cultural news and ideas, not ever deeper explanations about one’s self. What each person writes on a topic reveals sufficient information about the writer. Give me all kinds of information and opinion and analysis in language that can be parsed, and my cup will be full. Such commentary usually includes facts, statistics, quotations, questions, arguments, and irony further elucidating (or taking issue with) Karen’s posts at the top of the page.<br /><br />There’s always an opportunity for one-on-one personal exchanges off to the side. For socializers who like to bare their souls to crowds, there’s always FaceBook. And the web has endless specialty sites where people who ride the same hobby horse are most welcome.Jay–Ottawahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10360356126450612113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-77572518852823425292013-07-13T16:36:44.222-04:002013-07-13T16:36:44.222-04:00@Denis--
While what Fred has said on my behalf is...@Denis--<br /><br />While what Fred has said on my behalf is accurate, I could have been far less snippy and abrupt, and more explanatory when making my remark.<br /><br />For that I apologize.<br /><br />@spreadoption--<br /><br />Commenting on others' remarks seem to be totally in the spirit of this forum. Certainly, almost anything that I might say regarding the defense of certain of our civil rights provokes comment, which I see as healthy as long as it's kept civil.<br /><br />As you say, "our nation is going down, and we need to fix it."<br /><br />Protecting ALL of our civil rights is an important component of this, and I see persuading some of you that they ALL matter, and that none is a "dead horse," as an important part of my "mission" here,as long as I'm permitted to do so.<br /><br />Maybe then we can ALL put our shoulders to the wheel in unison instead of as a fragmented body.<br /><br />Note also that neither Fred nor I nor citiZen brought up the xxx Amendment first, today.Zeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-48697867164541689662013-07-13T15:18:48.008-04:002013-07-13T15:18:48.008-04:00@Denis
Once again, Denis, you are "jumping t...@Denis<br /><br />Once again, Denis, you are "jumping the gun" (pun intended) in unleashing condemnation. I think you have misinterpreted Zee's point about the Nobel cachet. To me, the meaning, and implications, of Zee's statement are very straightforward: The Nobel prize (indeed, any prize) is no foolproof guarantee about the value or rightness or goals of either words delivered or the author of those words. (Hell, the awarding of a prize isn't even a guarantee that the prize is deserved for <i>past</i> accomplishments). And Obama's receipt of the Nobel prize, contrasted with his actions both prior to and subsequent to receipt of the prize, stands as prima facie evidence of all that. QED. And from a scientific perspective, which is where Zee and I are coming from, only a single accurate counterexample is required to invalidate a thesis. <br /><br />So the implication is that eloquent words should be judged on their descriptive accuracy, the insight they provide, and their ability to motivate positive action. That the author has received a prize is, or should be, largely unimportant.Fred Drumlevitchhttp://www.freddrumlevitch.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-37415705936045957332013-07-13T14:11:30.573-04:002013-07-13T14:11:30.573-04:00@spreadadoption
Don't leave me out. I support...@spreadadoption<br /><br />Don't leave me out. I support the right to abortion as well as *gasp* euthanasia, and the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th amendments along with all the rest. Just putting it out there so I can be added to the list of nasty, narcissistic, silly, violent hypocrites that don't deserve 'cheers'.annenigmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-3224618778866151742013-07-13T14:10:39.640-04:002013-07-13T14:10:39.640-04:00Everything's fine. People around here get on e...Everything's fine. People around here get on each other's nerves once in a while. Then we either work it out by ourselves or the Boss Lady steps in and takes care of things herself. No biggie. As you were, Sardonickists. :)Willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-39182638751334523412013-07-13T13:30:30.919-04:002013-07-13T13:30:30.919-04:00Cheers, Denis
Please take heart in the certainty ...Cheers, Denis<br /><br />Please take heart in the certainty that the daily contributions you make are among the most valuable here. <br /><br />The game played by Zee and Fred and CitiZen and others all around this sad country is intellectual jousting. Its aim is do harm to an opponent by skewering his or her contribution to the discussion. It's little more than narcissism on full display.<br /><br />And what hypocrisy! What on this page is more violent than CitiZen's condescending rant against what he sees as Denis' "violent communication." Ridiculous.<br /><br />We've been here before. A few months ago their target was another of this site's strongest contributors, Pearl. Disgusting.<br /><br />We're all in the same boat here; our nation is going down and we need to fix it. Now! But these guys would rather we spend our last moments squabbling among ourselves over matters that have no practical relevance to either the problem or the solution. Opportunity cost.<br /><br />I say to them: Knock it off, stop wasting our time on your silliness, and let's get to work. spreadoptionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-12370851568354664782013-07-13T10:04:33.256-04:002013-07-13T10:04:33.256-04:00@Denis
Before I begin, let me point out to you th...@Denis<br /><br />Before I begin, let me point out to you that this comment is essentially about communication and respect for rights, whether we agree with them or not on a personal level. However, I do use a particular right to illustrate my point. <br /><br />Violence comes in many forms, including speech. Singling out some for 'cheers' and mentioning the names of those you would exclude is one such form. Your obvious anger and bitterness regarding those who support parts of the Constitution that you don't agree with reminds me of the abortion battle. <br /><br />Abortion, a violent act that always results in death whether you like it or not, has become one of our rights through law, even though it is not explicitly in the Constitution. It is the law of the land and the right of every woman. Many would like to restrict or regulate it for their own reasons of safety or validity or legitimacy, but we know where they're coming from. <br /><br />The personal choice is none of anyone's business, and they shouldn't be condemned for supporting the right itself whether or not they actually would exercise it themselves. A slippery slope is present around every right. No pro-choice advocate would support regulations on abortion that are simply a disguise for control and elimination of the right to choose. <br /><br />It's the same with the xxx Amendment that we can't mention because it doesn't fit the topic, or only vaguely so, like expensive toothpaste covers. <br /> <br />Please keep that in mind when you express contempt for citizens who support retaining all their rights, exercised personally or not. You might feel that support condones 'violence'. Let me remind you once again that ALL abortions end in death. None are for sport. Many are for personal safety and security, but that's not a legitimacy test that they should ever have to take to retain their rights. Hands off my body and my PPDs - personal protective devices. <br /><br />I suggest you cool your heels and take the time to refresh yourself on methods of nonviolent communication. Going off topic is a regular thing here, but it is only condemned when it concerns the xxx amendment.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_CommunicationCitiZennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-59546011215929450702013-07-13T06:39:23.948-04:002013-07-13T06:39:23.948-04:00@ Pearl – Cheers to you, and all (excepting, of co...@ Pearl – Cheers to you, and all (excepting, of course, Zee and Fred):<br /><br />Martin Luther King Jr., Nobel Lecture, “The Quest for Peace and Justice,” The Nobel Peace Prize 1964:<br /><br />“I experience this high and joyous moment not for myself alone but for those devotees of nonviolence who have moved so courageously against the ramparts of racial injustice and who in the process have acquired a new estimate of their own human worth. Many of them are young and cultured. Others are middle aged and middle class. The majority are poor and untutored. But they are all united in the quiet conviction that it is better to suffer in dignity than to accept segregation in humiliation. These are the real heroes of the freedom struggle: they are the noble people for whom I accept the Nobel Peace Prize…<br /><br />“The nonviolent resisters can summarize their message in the following simple terms: we will take direct action against injustice despite the failure of governmental and other official agencies to act first. We will not obey unjust laws or submit to unjust practices. We will do this peacefully, openly, cheerfully because our aim is to persuade. We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself. We will try to persuade with our words, but if our words fail, we will try to persuade with our acts. We will always be willing to talk and seek fair compromise, but we are ready to suffer when necessary and even risk our lives to become witnesses to truth as we see it.<br /><br />This approach to the problem of racial injustice is not at all without successful precedent. It was used in a magnificent way by Mohandas K. Gandhi to challenge the might of the British Empire and free his people from the political domination and economic exploitation inflicted upon them for centuries. He struggled only with the weapons of truth, soul force, non-injury, and courage.”<br /><br />http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1964/king-lecture.html<br /><br />@Zee and Fred, who said…“Why bother to refer to another tired, old, establishment Nobel Prize winner as a source of wisdom?” and “the [Nobel] cachet has entirely lost its luster".<br /><br />This from Zee and Fred, who never miss an opportunity to “flog a dead horse,” i.e., bringing up guns and the Second Amendment over and over again!!!<br /><br />Without doubt, the Nobel Prize has lost some of its luster, blunders and bad choices have become more common in recent years, but how could anyone say the same of Martin Luther King Jr.’s eloquent words? <br /><br />Or Harold Pinter’s blistering critique of the entire course of US foreign policy in the period since World War II? Pinter’s address was refreshing for its honesty and bluntness.<br /><br />"Anatole France frankly advised, 'When a thing has been said and said well, have no scruple. Take it and copy it.' Yes, indeed, but do more. Copy many well-said things. Pierce them together. Assimilate them. Make the process of reading them a way to form the mind and shape the soul. As anthologies can never be complete, we will never exhaust the ways quotations can enrich our lives.” - Gary Saul Morson, The Words of Others: From Quotations to Culture<br /><br />“I quote others only to better express myself. I have gathered a posy of other men's flowers, and nothing but the thread that binds them is my own.” - Michel de Montaigne, The Complete EssaysDenis Nevillenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-90779293918187020452013-07-13T01:52:30.216-04:002013-07-13T01:52:30.216-04:00@Zee:
Also a student long ago at the (as you so a...@Zee:<br /><br />Also a student long ago at the (as you so aptly characterized it) "once-great" University of California, I too am appalled at the prospect of Janet Napolitano becoming its president. <br />Upon reflection, I think I know the reasons behind the choice. Given her expertise at helping the government abdicate a measured national security role and instead dangerously bloat and farm out "security" to a massive web of overpaid private contractors, who better to complete the dismemberment of the former goals of California higher education? She's in no way equipped to run the UC system as it should be run, nor are there any indications that she understands the need for academic excellence, independence, and affordability.<br /><br />Instead, I expect she'll increasingly "partner" (read: sell out) the university to big business, and furthermore, many of those businesses will probably have military or "security" associations.<br /><br />New freshman core curriculum at the University of California under Napolitano:<br /><br />1) drone design and operation (with additional consideration of the problems of reduced lift under conditions of global warming)<br /><br />2) electronic surveillance technology, design and operation<br /><br />3) the ergonomics of surveillance and the remote operation of war machines (or, avoiding backache and carpal tunnel syndrome from hours in the surveillor or drone operator's chair)<br /><br />4) making effective governmental and corporate propaganda<br /><br />5) surreptitious administration of tranquilizers and anti-anxiety pharmaceuticals to the populace via municipal water systems and GMO foodstuffs.<br /><br />6) "learning to love your oppressor", or, a "philosophy of life" for the modern age.<br /><br /><br />@Denis:<br /><br />I was about to compliment you on providing us with the eloquence of the Pilger quotes and Pinter Nobel Lecture excerpts, until Zee yanked me back to reality with a reminder about Obama as Nobel Prize winner (or should I say "wiener"?). Excellent quotes, Denis, very relevant, but I've got to agree with @Zee "that the [Nobel] cachet has entirely lost its luster".<br /><br /><br />@annenigma:<br /><br />I too have watched the network news (in my case, most recently the Friday CBS and BBC evening broadcasts), and also noticed the abysmal way that they were framing coverage of Edward Snowden. And of course, the specific issues raised in the eloquent and to-the-point statement that Snowden issued today were almost completely ignored. And relevant to all this (and more), great interview this week of Marty Kaplan by Bill Moyers:<br /><br />http://billmoyers.com/segment/marty-kaplan-on-the-weapons-of-mass-distraction/<br /><br /><br />@all:<br /><br />While the scope of electronic surveillance has vastly increased in recent years, here's suggestion that Microsoft's Windows Operating System had an NSA surveillance "backdoor" years prior to 9-11:<br /><br />http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/5/5263/1.html<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY<br /><br />Do NOT, however, think that Apple's computers do not have surveillance enablement. Based on Apple's past behavior, I'd bet that they do.<br /><br />And even some versions of Linux have the potential to be exploited for surveillance:<br /><br />http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.htmlFred Drumlevitchhttp://www.freddrumlevitch.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-83679974941274271512013-07-12T23:38:09.579-04:002013-07-12T23:38:09.579-04:00He might be alive today but he had a huge number o...He might be alive today but he had a huge number of people marching with him and he lived with death facing him every day. He did manage to get his message out because of the huge physical support despite the deadly attacks on his people. However, Snowden did not have a huge movement behind him to give him the choice of remaining in his country and he hoped that the message he had for the American people would be adopted. They both are-were great men of vision and the things they represent will eventually sink through. MLK is occasionally (not often enough) quoted these days with warnings of what he saw developing. He was killed because the terrorists of our country were afraid he would get into a seat of power. Instead, we have <br />a poor copy in the White House with the only similarity being their skin <br />color.<br /><br />Denis, this is your chance to cheer us up with statements MLK made during <br />his lifetime which are even more meaningful than ever these days. If <br />Zimmerman gets his due with a jail sentence it means we are on that slow <br />path toward the light. <br /><br />Pearlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-13716818427813774032013-07-12T23:05:46.635-04:002013-07-12T23:05:46.635-04:00@James--
If Kat can't drive you crazy, rest a...@James--<br /><br />If Kat can't drive you crazy, rest assured that <b> I'm </b> working on it.Zeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-69491415841732041202013-07-12T23:02:42.757-04:002013-07-12T23:02:42.757-04:00@Denis--
Why bother quoting Nobel Prize winners t...@Denis--<br /><br />Why bother quoting Nobel Prize winners to us anymore?<br /><br />Barack Obama was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize by the Euro-Weenies purely "on spec," for services never rendered.<br /><br />By your own admission, Paul Krugman, winner of the Nobel Prize for Economics, is nothing more than an "establishment liberal." <br /><br />So why bother trotting out Harold Pinter's acceptance speech as anything new or novel? <br /><br />There's plenty of evidence from lesser mortals that what Pinter alludes to ré America's perfidy is true. Why bother to refer to another tired, old, establishment Nobel Prize winner as a source of wisdom?<br /><br />I think that the cachet has entirely lost its luster.Zeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-68586395750138235352013-07-12T22:21:35.877-04:002013-07-12T22:21:35.877-04:00Kat,
I know, you're trying to drive me crazy....Kat,<br /><br />I know, you're trying to drive me crazy. It won't work; you can't get any crazier than a shit house rat. Good night.James F Traynornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-46078955958125273482013-07-12T22:11:51.032-04:002013-07-12T22:11:51.032-04:00The ‘greatest show on the road’ and its ‘vast tape...The ‘greatest show on the road’ and its ‘vast tapestry of lies’ <br /><br />Edward Snowden's revelations, as John Pilger said, “are not merely about privacy, or civil liberty, or even mass spying. They are about the unmentionable: that the democratic facades of the US now barely conceal a systematic gangsterism historically identified with, if not necessarily the same as, fascism.”<br /><br />Nobel Lecture, “Art, Truth & Politics” by Harold Pinter, The Nobel Prize in Literature 2005, excerpts:<br /><br />“The majority of politicians, on the evidence available to us, are interested not in truth but in power and in the maintenance of that power. To maintain that power it is essential that people remain in ignorance, that they live in ignorance of the truth, even the truth of their own lives. What surrounds us therefore is a vast tapestry of lies, upon which we feed…<br /><br />The truth is something entirely different. The truth is to do with how the United States understands its role in the world and how it chooses to embody it…<br /><br />Everyone knows what happened in the Soviet Union and throughout Eastern Europe during the post-war period: the systematic brutality, the widespread atrocities, the ruthless suppression of independent thought. All this has been fully documented and verified.<br /><br />But my contention here is that the US crimes in the same period have only been superficially recorded, let alone documented, let alone acknowledged, let alone recognised as crimes at all. I believe this must be addressed and that the truth has considerable bearing on where the world stands now. Although constrained, to a certain extent, by the existence of the Soviet Union, the United States' actions throughout the world made it clear that it had concluded it had carte blanche to do what it liked…<br /><br />Hundreds of thousands of deaths took place throughout these countries. Did they take place? And are they in all cases attributable to US foreign policy? The answer is yes they did take place and they are attributable to American foreign policy. But you wouldn't know it.<br /><br />It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn't happening. It didn't matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It's a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis…<br /><br />The United States no longer bothers about low intensity conflict. It no longer sees any point in being reticent or even devious. It puts its cards on the table without fear or favour. It quite simply doesn't give a damn about the United Nations, international law or critical dissent, which it regards as impotent and irrelevant…<br /><br />Its official declared policy is now defined as 'full spectrum dominance'. That is not my term, it is theirs. 'Full spectrum dominance' means control of land, sea, air and space and all attendant resources…We must remind ourselves that the United States is on a permanent military footing and shows no sign of relaxing it…<br /><br />I believe that despite the enormous odds which exist, unflinching, unswerving, fierce intellectual determination, as citizens, to define the real truth of our lives and our societies is a crucial obligation which devolves upon us all. It is in fact mandatory.<br /><br />If such a determination is not embodied in our political vision we have no hope of restoring what is so nearly lost to us - the dignity of man.”<br /><br />http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/2005/pinter-lecture-e.htmlDenis Nevillenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-68846248136776747362013-07-12T22:06:36.968-04:002013-07-12T22:06:36.968-04:00What really makes me seethe with anger right now i...What really makes me seethe with anger right now is watching the network evening news programs and their ongoing nightly blackout of the government surveillance programs, never mind their Constitutionality or impact on privacy. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DEBATE the President welcomed? Didn't they get their marching orders? Apparently the orders they got was to shut the fuck up. <br /><br />The networks, even PBS, will only talk about Snowden himself, 'the ex-spy turned fugitive' (ABC World News). What an interesting new label, 'ex-spy' - straight from the White House. <br /><br />They're doing their part to keep the secrets SECRET. If it isn't being directly threatened, I'm sure it's being strongly hinted at that they could face 'Aiding The Enemy' charges if they report those secrets during the news. Can't have the military or the sheeple hearing such things.<br /> <br />Even that rag, the NYT, won't touch info about the surveillance programs with a 10 foot pole, neither the domestic nor foreign ones. They prefer peripheral matters, like the FISA court or the chess game between our David and that beast Goliath. <br /><br />Anyway, we can add two more items to Kat's list: <br />Ex-spy! <br />Aiding The Enemy!annenigmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-2986422446620673752013-07-12T21:12:32.665-04:002013-07-12T21:12:32.665-04:00Kat: regarding the comments you listed that people...Kat: regarding the comments you listed that people have made about Snowden:<br /><br />> What if Ellsburg had not released to the NYTimes and others regarding the facts regarding the<br />> Vietnam War? He was lucky to escape imprisonment or worse because many other people in government were implicated and the case against him was badly handled and he escaped a Manning kind of life by the skin of his teeth.<br />> When Snowden contemplated how to handle his exposure information, he wisely resolved to flee the country not only to be able to live humanely but to be able to speak more about the information he had. He would have been arrested had he stayed in the U.S., imprisoned and the information taken away from him and destroyed.<br />> Ellsburg had the NYTimes to help in the exposure (The Times also escaped from severe penalties during a trial), but in today's atmosphere there is no hope of any kind of sane treatment if you decide to whistleblow. Just remember all the recent cases of what happened to officials who 'talked' about lesser transgressions. And now of course, your fellow office worker could report you to the authorities without even having proof of anything.<br />> Attacks on Snowden will delay any hope of change down the line (not now, yet) and I have noticed how many more articles in the media are taking up the reporting of current transgressions by the government be it regarding privacy invasion or the U.S. role in Egypt.<br />> Snowden is doing the ugly job that is necessary for us, and the least we can do is support him and encourage more of the same from others. Any of us can be faced with a McCarthy kind of personal attack and be helpless if no one is out there to fight for our rights.<br />> If we back off from encouraging the courageous ones, the hyenas will have their day and it won't be pretty. Unfortunately, too many of the so called liberal commentors to NYTimes articles are saying very ugly things about Snowden and in other media reports, so despite an almost majority support for Snowden, there are those who should know better and not encourage further government bullying of people and nations.<br /><br />Pearlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-82516473397559136472013-07-12T21:11:43.320-04:002013-07-12T21:11:43.320-04:00Here's another good one, James:
"I wonder...Here's another good one, James:<br />"I wonder now much standing Martin Luther King would have today if he had fled the US instead of marching on Selma and asked Russia and Venezuela for asylum instead?"<br />Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-40886992177717928092013-07-12T19:37:40.097-04:002013-07-12T19:37:40.097-04:00It's difficult for me to believe that if Putin...It's difficult for me to believe that if Putin really wanted to, he could simply put Snowden on a <i> Russian </i> diplomatic flight (<i> viz., </i> a Russian flag airline carrier or charter plane) to any one of the Latin American countries that have offered him asylum, and not be interfered with by "air-space" pressure from the U.S.<br /><br />Putin has some game of his own going on.<br /><br />After all, didn't Ecuador simply issue some "paper" in Hong Kong--after Snowden's U.S. passport had been cancelled--that allowed him to travel to Russia in the first place.<br /><br />How hard can this really be?Zeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-11823829646480514842013-07-12T19:13:33.646-04:002013-07-12T19:13:33.646-04:00"...perhaps, be exonerated." Of what? By..."...perhaps, be exonerated." Of what? By whom? The Constitution no longer exists. Mindless shit.James F Traynornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-974773076690597683.post-13312950831117758442013-07-12T18:49:06.950-04:002013-07-12T18:49:06.950-04:00James,
Here's an example from the NYT comments...James,<br />Here's an example from the NYT comments:<br /><i>While the extent of surveillance is certainly disturbing, I can't sympathize with the knee-jerk reaction of seeing Snowden as some kind of hero. This is not like Watergate, where people were shown to have clearly broken the law. Snowden's leaks could result in some Americans being tortured or killed. He should return to stand trial and then, perhaps, be exonerated.</i><br />Katnoreply@blogger.com